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What Is The Best E Bike Motor For You? | E MTB Mid Drive Motor Comparison

What Is The Best E Bike Motor For You? | E MTB Mid Drive Motor Comparison

– What motor’d you choose
for your e-mountain bike? Well, it’s not like a
traditional mountain bike where for many years it’s been
incredibly straightforward. A choice of Sram or Shimano. No, on an e-bike there are
many, many more choices. And it’s not just the motor
you have to take into account. There’s such things as the
display or the battery, which of course affects
how much range you have. So maybe then a better question might be, what bike do you choose
for your motor of choice? (digital beeps) But, it really is an important
way of looking at it. Do you choose the motor
or do you choose the bike? After all, the motor is
only just part of the story. What about such things as the geometry? Is the bike visually appealing? Do you get a good deal? Or, do you get a good warranty
as well with that bike? Motors, then, we can look at them and evaluate them in
so many different ways. We can look at the watts or the torque, or the displays or the weight, or the resistance past
25 kilometers an hour. Each motor has an
individual way about them. And, as we’ll see when
we go through this list, that the motor actually raises some bigger picture questions. Now, we’re going to go through
this list alphabetically, and as we do so, we’re going
to be talking about some of the big picture questions facing motors. And the story begins with a company called Bafang from China. Now, we see a lot of mid-drive motors come from Germany or Japan. Now, Bafang comes from one of China’s largest cities, Shanghai. They make a lot of mid-drives. They actually make seven mid-drive motors, ranging from 18 Newton meters
up to 120 Newton meters. So, these are really
powerful mid-drive motors. Now, up until now, these guys have made a lot of motors for sort of commuter style bikes, but I think it’s only a
matter of time before Bafang, and indeed the Chinese in general, shift across to the
e-mountain bike market. (upbeat music) So, from a range of motors
to one motor used by a huge range of brands. Now, Bosch have been in
the e-mountain bike market from the very beginning. Around about 2010, 2011. And it was only last year
that they launched the latest version of their motor. The generation four which
succeeded this motor here. Now, the coolest thing
about the Bosch motor, it’s got 75 Newton meters of torque, plus there’s the modes available. You’ve got eco, tour, turbo and of course the eMTB mode, which is like an automatic
mode for an e-bike. Now, it’s got walk assist, it’s got a huge service network worldwide. And as I mentioned earlier, there’s a massive amount
of brands that use that 4th generation motor. Such brands as Haibike,
Mondraker, Lapierre, Track, Focus, you name it, they’re all using that motor. But one of the big picture
stories about Bosch is the batteries that go with them. Now, you can get 400-watt hour battery, 500-watt hour battery or 625-watt hours and, if you think about
such bikes as the Haibike, you can actually have a 625 and
bolt on a 500 on top of that which gives you an
amazing amount of range. (upbeat music) Now, at 90 Newton meters of torque, the Brose Drive S and the Drive S Mag is one of the most powerful
e-bike motors on the market and also, it’s probably got one of the most natural fells to
it when you’re pedaling it. Now, its got four levels of assist, it’s got walk assist too and, of course, its got an app that comes with it. It’s found on bikes such
as the Bulls and the Fantic and, of course, on the Specialized but we’re going to talk about
that a little bit later on. Let’s talk about another
bike that features Brose which is the Rotwild. Now the Rotwild has got a
battery with 750-watt hours so that’s a huge amount of range. And, again, this is something you need to focus in on when
choosing your e-bike motor. (upbeat music) The German brand, Fazua, has got a lower power e-mountain bike system which actually makes it quite unique and, in many ways, this bike
is more of a gateway bike into e-mountain biking. It’s got laods of really
cool features about it, such as the battery and the
motor which can be detached and you can replace that with a cover and ride the bike as a
traditional mountain bike. Now, it’s got 60 Newton meters of torque which is the same as the
Shimano e-7000 system but they actually work and
operate quite differently and feel differently when
you’re out on the trail. Now, you might be thinking
that that 250-watt hour battery is quite a low capacity, but, if you think about it,
because it’s got less power it’s actually drawing
less from that battery. So you’ve got a lighter weight bike. Now in terms of the power there’s three modes
and the strongest mode, which is rocket, will be similar to, say, a tour mode on a Bosch. And this motor comes on
bikes such as the Focus or that Lapierre Zesty, which
we rode in France last year. (upbeat music) Now, the Croatian Greyp motor
is only actually available on their own bikes, as far as we know and the motor is super quiet. It’s really punchy at 90
Newton meters of torque and it’s got a self-lubricating system. Not only that, it comes
with a big capacity battery. 700-watt hours, which is one
of the largest on the market and it’s also on of the most compact. And you can dismount that battery in a matter of split seconds. However, its probably the apps that go with the Greyp system that this brand is most well-known for. (upbeat music) A case for Cervélo from France it’s going to be really
interesting to see how their combined motor gearbox
develops in the next few years. And from France to Japan and Panasonic. Now we don’t really see Panasonic motors on that many e-bikes, but the Flyer Uproc is one such bike. It’s a really good-looking bike. The motor itself: 90 Newton meters with a 630-watt hour battery. And this is something
I want to focus in on on this particular aspect and that is the torque. Now, whilst, say the
Panasonic and the Brose have both got 90 Newton meters, the Panasonic offers 300% support level whereas the Brose offers 410% support. So whilst torque is quite
an indicator of power, it’s not conclusive. And that’s because of the way the software is developed for each motor. Now, Polini is a brand most famous for aftermarket parts for scooters. But they’ve got some
pretty cool looking motors. The E-P3 at 70 Newton meters of torque and the E-P3 MX which is their new motor which has got 90 Newton meters. It’s got a really neat display. It’s got 5 levels of assist and we saw some pretty cool looking bikes at EUROBIKE last year
featuring this motor. Now, Finnish brand, Revonte, we’re really excited to see where this brand goes in the future. With a system, the combined
motor and gearbox system, which, I guess, is similar to the Cervélo but it’s really, really neat and compact. And, surely, it’s only a matter of time before one of the big players
gets involved with this brand. (upbeat music) Now we can’t have a talk about motors without the battery
discussion that goes with it. And, ususally, it’s a system that combines the motor and the battery. Now you can get external batteries, you can get internal ones. Now, Rocky Mountain have
got a large capacity battery mounted inside the down tube and the motor is super powerful. It’s rumored to be 110
Newton meters of torque, But, it’s worth bearing in mind that some batteries in fact detachable and you can take them in an instant whereas other motors,
such as the Rock Mountain, rely on you taking that
battery out of the down tube, which is a little bit more evolved. Right now we’re into the three Ss: Sachs, Shimano and Specialized. Now Sachs is a German brand and I’m sure it won’t be
long we’ll see these guys involved in some big players. But, moving on to Shimano. They’ve got 2 motors, the
E-7000 and the E-8000. 60 Newton meters and 70
Newton meters, respectively. Now, the motor is super compact. It’s got a really neat display. But, I think, more than anything there’s a really natural
ride feel to their motors. And this is something
you need to bear in mind when you’re choosing a motor, so it’s all about getting out there and trying the different ones and see if they feel like
what you want them to. (upbeat music) Specialized totally changed
the e-mountain bike market with the launch of their Levo SL bike. Now, this is a lightweight system 30 Newton meters of torque. Now remember the Levo
bike is 90 Newton meters using the Brose system. So I guess the question is: Can you go as far on
a 30 Newton meter bike as you can on one with
a 700-watt hour battery? Well, yes you can. Because, if you think about
it, that 30 Newton meter bike is taking less power out of the battery than the bigger system. So it’s actually now a question of what type of e-mountain biker are you? D’you go for the lighter, nimble style or d’you go for the powerful and planted because the Levo SL is
probably and arguably closer to a mountain bike than it is to a powerful e-bike. Nevertheless, the Levo has
a huge range of options. You’ve got the Levo SL that’s really neat. You’ve got the Levo with either a 500-watt hour
or a 700-watt hour battery. Plus, of course, there’s the 180 mil Kenevo, which again has got a 500
or a 700_watt hour battery. (upbeat music) Now, one motor which
really has caused a stir over the last few years is the TQ motor. Now this features on the Haibike Flyer and on the M1 bike which
we rode in Gaud last year. 120 Newton meters of torque. It’s an enormously powerful motor and an incredible amount of fun! Which leaves us with Yamaha. That very famous brand from Japan. Now, so incredibly reliable motor. It’s got five levels of assist including that EcoPlus mode
which is quite special. Now we’ve also seen Yamaha launch a concept bike very recently so it’s going to be
really interesting to see where this brand goes in the future. And for that matter, all
of these motor brands. So, there you go! Motors. It’s and
incredibly complex subject. Like I said, we’ve got
some bigger picture stories here to think about. Not just the motor. Such things as the battery capacity, the apps that go with it, the torque, the support levels, the displays, the resistance
past 25 kilometers an hour because, after all, that varies
between all of these motors as does the noise. And the only way you can find this out is to get along to a demo
event and see if that motor works like you want it to and is actually on the bike
that you think you want to buy. In the mean time, let us
know your comments below if you need to know anything
about e-bike mid drive systems. ‘Cause we only concentrated
on mid drives today, not such things as the hub drives or the aftermarket bolt-ons,
which is a separate subject. Give us a thumbs up if you like this video and don’t forget to hit on the globe to subscribe to EMBN and
more e-mountain bike content. (beep) Now, the cool thing about the Bosch motor it’s got 75 Newton meters of torque and (beep) I’ve forgotten it again. And… (hand clapping) (smacking sounds) Yes!

79 comments on “What Is The Best E Bike Motor For You? | E MTB Mid Drive Motor Comparison

  1. Of course it always depends on the purpose, on some days a Fazua would be enough, on others the TQ motor is the right one.
    Difficult question…! 😀😀😀

  2. Mid Drive is way more expensive, requires much more maintenance, and is more complex to operate. Install can be very expensive because of the complexity. On the positive side, Mid drives can climb better, and provide a nice cruising speed for the long haul open road., and have a better center of gravity for better handling for those that race to win.

    Hub motors are much less expensive, zero maintenance, and super simple to use and operate. DC brushless Hub motors only have 3 moving parts. Rotor and 2 bearings. That is all. Very reliable and can make a ton of speed and power depending on controller and battery. Install for a Hub motor is simple, especially for a front hub but make sure to use and install a torque arm for a front hub install.

  3. I was really looking forward to this video…..and was very disappointed. That brings us to Yamaha which of course has the eco+ mode and that is all you said about Yamaha. I love your videos but this one is really poor with just a tiny snippet of info on each motor. Come on guys give us a motor video of substance…something we can really get into.

  4. I have yamaha pw 250. 2000 miles so far no problems, seems a bit more noisy at times than when new. Be interested to see how many miles I get out of it….

  5. Noticed they shrugged off bafang and got them out the way with very little said about them. Yet motors that are used in the sponsors bikes got more said about them even started talking about batteries and apps. Ebike snobbery at its best

  6. to me most displays look absolutely shitty compared to the rest of an highend e-bike

    really glad that the YT Decoy has everything for a nice price, well designed and in the right place <3

  7. I have a Bafang conversion, and a Yamaha on a Haibike, both very good, the Bafang is much quieter, but the Yamaha with torque sensor is a better performer. Spare Yamaha battery is very expensive, my Bafang with equivalent Wh battery has better range and the battery is less than half the price of the Yamaha.
    I fully expect Bafang to become a dominant player in this market, they have been making motors in different markets for years, so they have the experience.
    Thanks for the video.

  8. My first ebike was a Canondale Neo Hard tail with the Shimano motor and my new ebike is a Trek Powerfly 5 fs and have really liked the Shamano motor better, found it much smother and stronger but it’s hard to compare in one way as my Shimano was ton a hard tail and the Bousch motor is the n a full suspension so some people say the bousch motor has to work harder because of the full suspension, I would sure like to try a full suspension with the Shimano motor to really see the comparison.

  9. I would like to see more future bikes with a 500 to 625 ish main battery with a piggy back type add on… I think most people ride most rides with a standard battery, but big days out and holidays where you need more, the add on makes sense.

  10. Not sure but e-mtb fanbase (or at least comment section) seems very hostile and unfriendly.
    Everything is wrong in their opinion and only their own Chinese DIY bike is the right option and everything else is trash.
    Meanwhile other comment section is filled with "Hey dude, that's really nice bike!"

  11. Hi guys wonder if u can help me out I'm going to buy a hardtail ebike to commute to and from work and a little bit of trail riding was thinking about either the fantic xf2 integra with the brose drive s mag motor the Vitus e sentier with the e7000 shamino motor or do I go with bosh gen4 motor bike which one will be best for commuting with the least amount of drag after 25kmph many thanks for ur help

  12. Bafang makes motors up to 160nm not 120. And they are already in the emtb market. By far the #1 seller of emtb motors. No other company is close to how many they sell.

  13. I choosed the fazua motor, cause even if they stop producing the motor or fazua goes bankrupt one day, i still can ride my focus as a normal mtb. And it is very light compared to other e-mtb's 🙂

  14. I like the look of the turbo levo hard tail a lot and it fits within cycle to work scheme budget. I have a older cube 500sl with the bosch performance line cx will I be disapointed with the brose 1.2e 50nm and the 400wh battery ? Should I go for a cube 625 exc with bosch gen 4? I'm about 16 stone so should I be thinking torque?
    Will the blevo app make the levo more lively?

  15. Feel like these videos always ignore one of the most important factors which is reliability. The brose is notorious for failing, and who wants to have to replace their motor?

  16. Scott, with the E8000, love it because you can forget it's there as it causes no resistance, bar the weight of course! 😉 So two bikes in one, well sort of anyway.

  17. keep in mind the numbers can paint a decieving picture.Also different software can make it feel like a whole nother animal. Keep those wheels turning and dig in to those motors deeper!

  18. Befang???
    I have had Befang BBs01+02 and they work great, then the spindle i found out cannot cope with heat and shattered as it is made of poor metal quality, i so far have replaced motor 4+ times and i upgraded the motor to 350w after the first time it let me down.
    I have not tried the bigger motors yet but they all use the same spindle from coil system i.e coil is wrapped around this spindle and cannot be removed or upgraded as it is all one unit. I found this out as i gave it to a friend who works at a company that makes magnet coils.

  19. I wanted kiox display,and so whent for latest new Bosch gen 4 ,but not many bikes had both in 3000 pounds, and 620 battery,so ended up with cube 2020 e-mtb,hard tail,it was out in 2019 December

  20. You never talk about Giant bikes, you will talk for hours about specialized and how they tweak the brose motor to suit them, but giant never get a look in, they tweak the Yamaha motor and make it more powerful, why is that less noteworthy.

  21. I bought a 2019 Trek Powerfly FS5 it replaces the 2014 Trek x-calibre hardtail. It was 2 years ago that I first rode a Trek Powerfly FS5 at a demo day.I was sold on it there and then so after much saving I now have my e-mtb. I have found it to be brilliant there has been many times I've exceeded the 32k limit without knowing so I can recommend the Bosch motor. I'm getting up to 100ks before recharging.

  22. Excellent as always… my limited experience is that all the motors are great. I prefer the original Brose over the latest Mag S in my new Levo as the old levo was more natural feeling and quieter, but the new motor is more efficient. Bosch CX 3 had an enjoyable character though technically worse, so again it’s a case of they’re all fine. I am curious about the new SL, I keep telling myself it’s not for me… but it could be a very enjoyable ride.

  23. I'd be interested to see an accurate power output measurement of all the motors, done by an independent company. I highly doubt that the more powerful motors like the flyon are only putting out 250W continuous.
    Power = Torque x angular speed
    You can't have more torque at high pedalling cadence and still remain within the 250W limit.

  24. It would be nice to see some more detail on the Yamaha/Giant Syncdrive systems. Bosch, Shimano and Brose/Specialized (but particularly the latter) seem to get most of the love.

  25. I haven't bought mine yet, but a big concern of mine is how long I'm going to be able to get replacement parts/battery's for, I tend to keep bike for 7/8 years, and as technology pushes forward, I don't want to be left in the lurch with a bike with terrible battery life or something I can't fix!

  26. Don't understand the bullshit mid drive motor when cud be setup to peddle a generate some power to charge super caps if anything no chain too

  27. what would be great is something akin to the JD power survey for eMTB motors. I was super excited to see the new specialized bike but then i read there specialized forums holy smokes a lot of upset people with soggy motors… but it lacks context is there a higher ownership/ then proportionally you'd see more people posting problems or does the brose have underlying flaws?

    The guy you need on your show is the one that's on the (emtb) forums who repairs them. Seemed like he had a fairly pragmatic view and knew the common areas of concern offering some good buyer beware advice.

  28. Hey guys I've been riding mountain bikes since I was a teenager. I'm in my late 40s lol , I'm 6 foot 200 hundred and 30 pounds I average 3000klms a year on a non ebike. I'm very interested in the e mountain bike what would you suggest what kind of e mountain bike to buy ? I currently ride a 2014 Giant trance with lots of upgrades including 160mm of travel front and back . Can you please help !

  29. I bought my first e-MTB this year. I bought a bike with Bosch CX Gen4 because of the larger battery (625). Shimano bikes only have 500 battery. Specialized and Rotwild with Brose have 700/750 batteries but these bikes are too expensive.

  30. Revonte has published YouTube videos for demobike with their motor on it. Seems like they are focusing only "Church and back" -models and not even plan to mountain bikes. Obviously it's going to be a big challenge to manage very small rear sprocket with high torque motor. They choosed they partners last month, so they are Lavelle (UK brand) and Tunturi (shitty Finnish crap company selling china bikes under their own brand with astronomical price).

  31. most e bikes are now more expensive than my dirt bike which is a real motorcycle. The amount of money wasted by rich people wanting to lose weight is just insane.

  32. I have been test riding Ebikes for about to get the right one?
    I am having more trouble finding the right side frame.
    L or XL ? It all depends on the bike
    So what is the best bike for long days in the saddle? & for smashing down the trail when I need to?
    I have taken a lot of ebikes out & then the day came were I took the Whyte e150s out on a demo ride & I was hooked
    XL e150rs with a 150mm dropper seatpost.
    It fits & does everything I need it to do.
    I am so glad I took my time looking for the right bike.

  33. I'm running the Vitus with an E8000 and it's been brilliant. A year of abuse and it's still running flawlessly. I can't say the same for friend with the more common specialized bikes. The only mod I've done is to add some Moto foam to the cable entry point to stop too much grim getting in.

  34. Great video overall! The feel of the Brose is great. The downside is you cannot use the full 90nm reliably without the belt or nylon gears failing at some point. Endless reports of this. It's not a great feeling knowing your motor might fail at the most in innoportune time. Personally on my 3rd motor in just 9 months. Next bike will not have a Brose that's for sure.

  35. I have over 3600km on my Bafang BBHSD. More power than bikes 4x the price.
    I put it on an old downhill hard tail with a thudbuster seat post, so as to not lose any torque with the rear suspension.
    Ebikes are the future and bafang has a jump on the mass market.

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